Comments on: The Catholic Church: The Church of the Early Fathers https://chnetwork.org/2018/01/19/catholic-church-church-early-fathers/ A network of inquirers, converts, and reverts to the Catholic Church, as well as life-long Catholics, all on a journey of continual conversion to Jesus Christ. Tue, 30 Jan 2018 01:55:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.5.3 By: Jeffrey Job https://chnetwork.org/2018/01/19/catholic-church-church-early-fathers/#comment-29836 Tue, 30 Jan 2018 01:55:00 +0000 http://chnstage.wpengine.com/?p=19191#comment-29836 In reply to Evangelicus Catholicus.

Not relative but subjective. Let me explain myself. Relatively as I understand it is “my truth” and “your truth “ which isn’t truth at all. It’s just my preference and your preference. Subjective vs objective: it is objectively wrong to punch someone in the face. That is, the act itself is inherently wrong. Subjective would be how culpable is a person who does this? An alzheimers patient thinks you’re attacking him so he punches you. Objectively wrong. Subjectively no because he doesn’t know what he’s doing. That’s what I was getting at with parsing differing divisions in the Church. It is objectively wrong to be separated from the Church and her authority. Subjective culpability is different for each person. The catechism says that if someone knows this is the Church founded by Jesus but refuses either to enter it or remain in it CANNOT be saved. But not everyone knows this so not everyone is equally guilty. One big caveat: we are obligated to seek truth and obey it when we find it.Fulton Sheen said we will either live as we believe or we will believe as we live.
Another way to say that: we either raise our moral behavior up to our beliefs through repentance or we will lower our beliefs down to our behavior. Many if not most choose the latter option. This is something I think a lot of well meaning people don’t realize. They want you to recommend a book for their loved one to read, see the light and fall on their knees praying the act of contrition. I marvel all the time how in discussions I have how many are impervious to truth. The problem usually isn’t in the intellect it’s in the will. If such and such is true then I have to change. Therefore I must deny truth so I can deny my personal guilt and need to change.

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By: Evangelicus Catholicus https://chnetwork.org/2018/01/19/catholic-church-church-early-fathers/#comment-29833 Mon, 29 Jan 2018 23:00:00 +0000 http://chnstage.wpengine.com/?p=19191#comment-29833 In reply to Jeffrey Job.

Then being outside the bond becomes relative. An Arian today would be a Jehovah Witness or a Unitarian-Universalist. As a Lutheran I do not in the least consider myself in league with them, but how relative can we be? Paul despised divisions in the church (1 Cor.1), Athanasius and Ignatius abhor any separation from the Catholic Church of their day, Today, Protestant theologians say if Paul was around today his intent by saying “divisions” would not include the divisions between the major orthodox catholic faiths of Christianity. So Paul is not pointing the finger at the major denominations today. What??? I have a hard time with that. I think as Paul looks down from heaven, if he still had any sinful human nature left (which he does not – enwrapped in God’s eternal bliss), there would be regret and anger. And Paul intercedes before the Throne daily (if daily is the right word to use) for the divisions in the church — starting with 1054 to today. [Actually a cursory reading of early church history shows us there were many councilor divisions and disagreements before 1054. ] The question is are we praying in earnest for the unity of the church daily. Maybe if all Christians were praying for unity, Satan would not have such freedom to perturb sinful Christians to divide. Things would be different.

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By: Jckie Burnie https://chnetwork.org/2018/01/19/catholic-church-church-early-fathers/#comment-29832 Sun, 28 Jan 2018 18:07:00 +0000 http://chnstage.wpengine.com/?p=19191#comment-29832 No simple answer to this…I know that many Anglicans refer to themselves as Anglo Catholics, Likewise, in the Reformed Church, I was taught he Apostles Creed at a very early age, and always took a certain comfort in the words : “Holy Catholic Church.”
I consider myself, today, to be a Reformed ( small c ) catholic, part of the larger mystical body, by virtue of original family affiliation… but I do get the difference, and I Know that I will not be in the fullness of the Holy Catholic Church on earth until I ‘come home.’ That is just my experience.

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By: Rich A. https://chnetwork.org/2018/01/19/catholic-church-church-early-fathers/#comment-29829 Sat, 27 Jan 2018 16:13:00 +0000 http://chnstage.wpengine.com/?p=19191#comment-29829 In reply to Evangelicus Catholicus.

My dear brother in Christ, while you are right to say that there were other groups promoting there particular version of what they believed and not all at the same time in many cases, The church fathers do show a consistency in thought and practice that is not seen in these other groups through time. The point of showing what these fathers wrote is to point out a consistency of teachings that goes on to today. I can understand your uneasiness as a protestant in reading these Fathers and the history behind it but I commend you for reading them. I have been a Catholic all my life and I can tell you that I stand beside my brothers and sister in faith with Christ within all dimensions but I also would welcome you in the pew beside me.

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By: Jeffrey Job https://chnetwork.org/2018/01/19/catholic-church-church-early-fathers/#comment-29827 Sat, 27 Jan 2018 04:02:00 +0000 http://chnstage.wpengine.com/?p=19191#comment-29827 In reply to Evangelicus Catholicus.

There is only objective Truth which we as believers are morally obligated to seek out. We must then obey the Truth. A Lutheran believes in the divinity of Jesus and also the Trinity so much closer to Truth than an Arian such as a Jehovah’s Witness. However, refer back to my first statement.

I’m not sure an Arian wouldn’t consider himself Catholic since most of the world’s Bishops fell for the heresy. There were Arians who would not consider themselves Catholics also.

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By: Evangelicus Catholicus https://chnetwork.org/2018/01/19/catholic-church-church-early-fathers/#comment-29826 Fri, 26 Jan 2018 23:51:00 +0000 http://chnstage.wpengine.com/?p=19191#comment-29826 In those early years of the church era, one was a docetist, a gnostic, a montanist, a manichaen, an arianist, or a Catholic. These people in the other cults would not in the least call themselves “catholic” or part of the same invisible church as the Catholics. A catholic was one who held to doctrines of the apostolic church as was carried by the orthodox tradition of the holy fathers. A docetist or arian was not a catholic and never considered himself such. As a protestant, i get a little uneasy reading the works of Athanasius or Ignatius. You get the impression one is either in or out, there was no universal ground to stand on. Am I as a Lutheran the same in Athanasius’ or Ignatius eyes as an arian?

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By: Iaseto Logologo https://chnetwork.org/2018/01/19/catholic-church-church-early-fathers/#comment-29821 Wed, 24 Jan 2018 08:11:00 +0000 http://chnstage.wpengine.com/?p=19191#comment-29821 Amen.

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